Chatting About an Atemporal Fall with Justin Coutts and Owen Rachal
What a joy this bright Pascha morning to awake and to find this indulgent conversation with Justin Coutts and Owen Rachal posted by them with their New Eden ministry. We recorded it several weeks back when they invited me to talked with them for what turned out to be a luxurious two hours. We all three talk about our own lives for a while before diving in with a more concentrated focus on the atemporal fall topic that assembled us. Both Justin and Owen share good life stories with many insights. For example, no one should miss hearing a little more about Justin’s journey’s into the wilderness with nothing but a copy of John Scotus Eriugena’s Periphyseon. As for the atemporal (or meta-historical) human fall, Justin and I have had a few written exchanges on this topic, and I wrote most recently about this over at Fr. Aidan Kimel’s blog. And so, without any further ado, here is our chat:
The notion of our participating in the Fall rings true to me, but I’m having trouble squaring it with Hart’s Romans 5:12 (probably because I am misreading it). If I am active in the Fall, then the western rendering, that all men die because all men sin, makes some sense to me. Adam dies because of sin; I die because of sin; it is the same sin; it is the same Man. But does Hart’s picture—in which death pervades humanity, whereupon man sins—have me outside of Adam, sinning in reaction to death, not with Adam, that is, sinning in pride even outside of a death-bound time?
This is helpful gentlemen, I thank you both.